There is also the "mysterious" runes (runic writings) in Hungary, which seems to be a different alphabet originating from East of the Urals or perhaps east of the Kaspian Sea.
The Hungarian Runes seems to be different than those found in Norway and Sweden. Surprisingly, very similar writings were also found in deep Central Asia on a monument erected by a Turkic tribe...
I guess, the steppes of Eurasia has made it "easy" to move for nomadic people who had mastered horse-back riding...
But, it is also a "mystery" to me, why the movements have been mostly East to West...
and... Kurultai From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search
Kurultai (Kazakh: Құрылтай, Qurıltay; Tatar: Qorıltay; Azerbaijani: Qurultay; Turkish: Kurultay) is a political and military council of ancient Mongol and Turkic chiefs and khans. The root of the word "Kural," or "Khural" means "meeting" in the Mongolian language as in State Great Khural. Kurultai is a little older variation of the word compared to the Mongolian language as of today.
A NEW VIEW OF THE ARTHURIAN LEGE www.magtudin.org/Arthur part 6.htm
scythia : Message: Schytian linquistic materials connecting Hunnish word Ver to Phri (Va:ri) in the first sllyable of a Schytian ... of Turkic dialects.Schytian sword Akinak is nothing ... groups.yahoo.com/group/scythia/message/502?l=1
Outside of the Schytian writing found in the vicinity of Alma-atý .The most ... information concerning Schytian linquistic materials If ... groups.yahoo.com/group/scythia/messages/488?xm=1&m=e&l=1
==>Turghai the husband of the daughter of Hulagu Khan. [18] [19]
==>[[Torgai]] in the [[Altay Mountains|Altai]] mountains of [[Siberia]].
==>...southeast suburb of the West-Siberian lowland, to the south from it is situated Torgai plateau;
==>Majar or Macar [mʌˈʤar] was a medieval city of Golden Horde in 13th-14th centuries. Once it played a major role in the trade between Idel-Ural, Caucasus and the Black Sea region. In 1310-1311 the city coined own money. In 1395 it was ruined by troops of Timur.
==>In Old slavic texts Hungarians were referred to as Ugors or Ogurs (Ugri), in Byzantine and early Latin texts uniguri, Ungri words were used, presumably from the Turkic word On ogur, meaning ten arrows, i.e. ten tribes (the traditional Hungarian tribes (Megyer, Jenő, Keszi, Nyék, Kér, Tarján, while Kürt and Gyarmat merged into one tribe making it seven total) joined by three Kabar tribes whose names are not known for sure (with the usual suspects being Ság, Ladány, Berény, Tárkány). Later, from the Unugor form evolved the words Ungarus, Ungar, Venger. In the middle ages the Latin Ungarus, Ungaria words changed to Hungarus, Hungaria
==>c.830 to c.895 Around 830, a civil war broke out in the Khazar khaganate. As a result, three Kabar tribes out of the Khazars joined the Magyars and they moved to what the Magyars call the Etelköz, i.e. the territory between the Carpathians and the Dnieper River (today's Ukraine)[citation needed]. Around 854, the Magyars had to face a first attack by the Pechenegs[citation needed]. (According to other sources, the reason for the departure of the Magyars to Etelköz was the attack of the Pechenegs[citation needed].) Both the Kabars and earlier the Bulgars may have taught the Magyars their Turkic languages; according to the Finno-Ugric theory[citation needed], this is used to account for at least three hundred Turkic words and names still in modern Hungarian. The new neighbours of the Magyars were the Vikings and the eastern Slavs. Archaeological findings suggest that the Magyars entered into intense interaction with both groups[citation needed]. From 862 onwards, the Magyars (already referred to as the Ungri) along with their allies, the Kabars, started a series of looting raids from the Etelköz to the Carpathian Basin–mostly against the Eastern Frankish Empire (Germany) and Great Moravia, but also against the Balaton principality and Bulgaria.[25]
Susan Tomory THE SCYTHIAN - SCOTTISH – HUNGARIAN RELATIONSHIP http://www.magtudin.org/Scythian-Scottish-Hungarian.htm ************************************** "Dear President, dear friends and colleagues of the Organizing Committee, Ladies and Gentlemen.
To my deepest regret I cannot attend this important World Congress, the organizers of which have been so kind as to nominate me Honorary President. Though I feel I do not deserve this honour, I am deeply touched by your conviction that I do.
I have learned to know Hungarian people through my studies, and I have been struck by their creativity, their intelligence and their special qualities, which are also reflected in the complexities of their language and culture.
My discovery that modern Hungarians are the heirs of the Kurgan invaders of Hungary in the Copper Age, and of the ancient founders of the Etruscan civilization, has not yet been accepted by official academies. But I have no doubt that eventually it will, and Hungarians will be recognized as the founders of one of the most original and important Bronze and Iron-Age civilizations of Europe.
I wish a great success to your Congress, and express the conviction that Hungary will occupy an increasingly important place in Europe" Mario Alinei
Actually those Hungarian runes are still in use today in Transsylvania by the Székelys. Although not on a regular daily basis, but it is alive and well and making a comeback. Its origins can be traced back through the Central Asian steppes directly to the Sumerians.
Actually the Madjar people were decimated and relocated to their present quarters first by Imperial Russia, then the Soviets finished the job. Their original location was around Alma Ata. -----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be extremely cautious when consulting European historical writing, it is rife with outright blatant falsehoods and extremely unreliable, especially for the period of the IVth through the Xth Centuries. One such example the Slavic name itself, which never existed, it is an artificial creation of XIXth Century European history "creation". Another extremely relevant example is the so called "Finno-Ugric theory" which is completely discredited by now. Another great example is this so called Greater Moravia, which is not supported by any historical record, quite on the contrary it is pure fiction,
Often, "language" is used to trace the descendancy of people. Obviously, Hungarian is not related to the "Indo-Germanic" languages. Never mind the "words", but by "grammar", too.
When I had visited Budapest (long time ago), it was the first European country where I was "lost", in the sense that no sign was decipherable by my knowledge of German and English.
No resemblance to anything I was familiar with.
There are such other enclaves: For instance, the Etruscans...but their language seems not to be Indo-European, nor directly related to any other, and it remains largely undeciphered, although the phonetics and morphology are understood.
I believe the "Basque" are another such "mystery" people.
However, that the Magyars are from the steppes of today's Russia and beyond seems to be beyond doubt.
I hardly know about the Finno-Ugric theory. Is that because Finnish is also hard to classify?
Perhaps, Magyar was thrown in with Finno-Ugric simply because it just was NOT Indo-European?
What references can you point me to regarding "Alma Ata" being the origin of the Magyars?
Here is a "Runic Inscription" from Central Asia, in a Turkic language.These are the so called "Orkhon Stelae". They were discovered by a Swedish officer who was a prisoner-of-war to the Russian Czar's army. He thought he had found writings from ancient Swedes, since "runes" were well known in Scandinavia by then. They turned out to be an old Turkic language, which is by now well read.
However, this shows how widespread the use of the runes then were! All the way from Inner Asia, to Scandinavia, to Hungary...
The Onogurs were a horde of equestrian nomads that wandered the Eurasian plains in the 5th–8th centuries. They lived in North Caucasian steppe east of Don River (Russia).
The 7th century tribal alliance of Old Great Bulgaria was also known as Onogundur-Bulgar Empire (or in its western version Onoguria). Some scholars identify the Onogundurs with the Onogurs, considering them as one of the leading tribe of the confederation. Others reject the identification of the two names.[1]
It is presently believed that the origin of the name "Hungarian" and "Hungary" does not come from the Central Asian nomadic invaders called the Huns, but rather originated either from the name of the Onogurs or from that of the seventh century tribal alliance.
Etymology
The word On means Ten, and Ok means Arrow in modern Turkish. On Ok (Ten Arrows) is the modern Turkish plural form. Similarly, On-Ogur in Old Turkic could mean "Ten Arrows" or "Ten Tribes".[2][3]
You are quite right, Hungarian or Magyar is definitely not Indo-European.
I am not an authority on the subject however my cousin's mother is a linguist and language historian and she taught me a lot of things.First and foremost what she taught me was, there is no such thing as Indo-European. It can be quite conclusively proven that no Indo migration occured into Europe at any time during human history(with the exception of the Gypsies), frankly it is but a figment of the imagination of European scientists working for monarchs and the Catholic Church, looking to establish a link between the rich culture and heritage of the East and the freshly forming European Monarchies, in other words they were looking for illustrious ancestors. Creation of the Indo-European term itself dates back to the late XVIIIth to early XIXth Centuries.
As for the Etruscans, I have seen Prof. Mario Alinei's name mentioned in this thread somewhere, he just published a book last year in which he demonstrates not only the similarity but the very close relation between Etruscan and Ancient Hungarian languages. Actually this has been demonstraded about 60 years ago, because the Etruscan writing has been deciphered with the use of the above already mentioned Hungarian Runes which we call "rovás" writing (rovaash).
As to two of your questions, Alma Ata was the center of the people we are refferring to as Madjars in this thread, who were forcibly relocated to their present quarters. Funny thing, there is a people in Nepal called Magar, fiercely independent they have been in a state of war with the Monarchy for at least 150 years.
Regarding the Finno-Ugric theory, it is based on the mixing up of the term Ugor with the term Ogur...:))) By renowned scientists, no less...., other than this it has no foundation and by now it has been conclusively defeated by DNA research.
There is one thing we know, Hungarian is an ancient language, quite possibly one of the oldest on Earth, but there is a great reluctance to accept it because a large part of history will have to be rewritten.
In the annals of the Byzantin Emperor Constantinos Porphyrogenetos, De Administrando Imperio one can find excellent revelations.
One of them is about the people we refer to as Bulgarians today.
In the annals they are referred to as Hunni Bolgares, the Huns by the river Volga. Hence their name...
Another interesting fact is about the death of Attila, Ruler of the Huns. Quite surprised he writes, that after his death a delegation of Avar noblemen arrived to Constantinople to notify them about the fact that they are the new rulers of the Hun Empire. For a week they turned every nook and cranny over in Byzantium to find a translator who speaks Avar, but to no avail. Huge was their amazement and a big load off their shoulders when the Avar noblemen arrived and their language turned out to be....Hun...:))))
It seems that those steppes and everything between them and Central Europe have been a lot more populated then anybody in the XIXth Century would have thought, they went by different names but they were part of the same people.
:)))))))))))))))))) Thank you for this. Sad, but so common in some fields of scholarly work where the interest of the rulers (who provide the funds) is not the facts, necessarily...
However, let us not presume that being the same peoples makes them "less" hostile to each other!
Regardless, people of the "same" background have been also their fiercest enemies. For instance, Scandinavian countries have been slaughtering each other for centuries. Denmark, Sweden and Norway!
What is of interest is the "movement" of people, its motivations of "why", and the survival of some of customs different from the "usual".
Nagyon örülök gurcanaral érdeklődésének, külön köszönettel tartozom kedves Kanbagolynak, amiért felvállalta a "rávarródott" tisztséget, és szabatosan bőségesen megválaszolt a felmerült kérdésekre. :-) Ezzel egy kicsit sikerült hozzájárulni Wass Albert akaratához, akinek célja volt megismertetni a világgal a magyarok igaz történelmét. Ha nem ismerem meg Wass Albert műveit, szellemiségét, nem lépek be a wassakarat.multiplay-be, és így egy "kanbagollyal is szegényebbek volnánk." ;-) Ezúttal kedvezett nekünk a szerencse. Köszönet érte. :-)
What is really scary, the whole history of the Middle Ages as written from the "civilized European" view is complete and utter falsification.
It only serves to reinforce the "rights" of certain Monarchies...
For example, the story of Greater Moravia and the Slavs.
By now we know very well that the settlement of the Carpathian Basin did not happen in one move. It happened along the course of several centuries. This did not fit the political aims of German rulers and Russian rulers, since neither wanted to allow for the existence and the continuity of a large people with strong military might existing there. We know it did exist, the facts support it, Attila was the last great Hun king and he ruled almost everything from Central Europe to the Caucasus. We know the Avars took over after an intense period of infighting and consolidated their power. Yet for some unfathomable reason "civilized" historians just declare them extinct...:)))
Instead of them they come up with a term, never heard before, with no basis in ethnography, geography, history and in general any known or dead discipline on the face of this Earth and this is the term SLAV! It was fabricated from the Latin term SCLAVUS, which means serf, indentured servant and SLAVE... Obviously, IF these people existed, they occupied a space in the continuum so it should have a name also..., and this became Greater Moravia..:)))) Obviously there is NO RECORD of any such thing in the annals of History but it does not seem to bother anybody from the scientific community.
What is also good for a chuckle, this supposed Greater Moravia exists in a time period WHICH ALSO NEVER EXISTED, between the VIth and Xth Centuries, which low and behold is the timeframe when the Carpathian Basin is being populated....:))))
A German Statitician and Researcher, by name Herbert Illig has a couple of books on almost the same theme, only he looks at all of Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heribert_Illig
His contention is that the early Middle Ages of Europe are a complete fraud and falsification and anything between 614 to 911 A.D. has to be thrown out because it is pure fiction. One of his very interesting books is The Imagined Middle Ages, The Biggest Fraud In History. Lots of people do not like him, but to this day, since 1991, NOBODY could prove him wrong!
She said she is extremely happy because you show interest in this theme, since very few Turkish people do, in spite of the fact that there is some degree of interrelatedness between our peoples, and she thanked me for being a nice guy translating and condensing a bunch of stuff for you....:))))
BTW, what is the Turkish word for beans and peppers?
However, several reliable historical records also mention that the Bulgarians moved into their present quarters at the same time and in a coordinated fashion with the Hungarians in a so called scissor move which encircled the whole Carpathian basin and surrounded it with related peoples. I would say it was quite a diplomatic, military and logistical feat.
Wow! After the emergence of modern Turkey, there HAS been sort of a "nationalism" (which I approach with caution!). At that time, there had been a lot of claims about the possible common origin of the Turkic tribes and Hungarians ('Majar" in Turkish). The Anatolian kingdom of the Ottomans (which had a lot of warfare with their contemporary Magyars!) is claimed to be from the "Oguz" or "Ogur" as well.
It is obvious that both the Ottomans AND the Magyars and the Huns came from the steppes of Inner Asia.
This does not necessarily make them "friends", as we know from the history. After all, "nation" is an artifact of the French Revolution. Prior to that, people simply had allegiance to a ruler. That was it!
The means to understand the movement of people has very limited means. One is the "language". The other one is "ancient cultural traditions". Both of those are subject to corruption over time.
The Oghuz of Anatolia where influenced by the Arabic and Persian cultures and Islam so much, it is a miracle that the basic language has survived.
Similarily, the effect of Christianity has had tremendous influence upon the Magyar culture.
When I was visiting Budapest (decades ago!), the tour guide was very proud of the memorial for Arpad(?), but, at the same time, very critical of the "Turks" having caused so much devastation to Hungary.
Of course these are NOT contradictory at all!. Who cared what your origin was from?
It is well documented that Byzantine Empire had "Turkic" or "Scythian" worriers in their army fighting against the Oghuz Turks of Anatolia...
But, then, what is new??? When Tamerlane sent his ultimatum to the then Ottoman Sultan (Bayezit I) he wrote in "Turkish", but the Sultan replied in "Persian", because at that time Persian was the "Lingua Franca".
Eventually, Tamerlane (Timur) prevailed and the first Ottoman kingdom was razed to ground.
But, these events have nothing to do with "cultural affiliation". That is "without borders".
Surely, Turks have had tremendous influence of the Islamic, Arabic and Persian culture. But, despite of those, the language and certain customs have prevailed.
Magyars also hold on to their language substantially, I see. Along that, I would be interested about ancient customs, unusual for Europeans, but overlapping with others, perhaps Turkomans, Alans, Kyrghiz and other "Central Asiatic" tribes.
We may or may not have descendants of the same "tribe". That is quite irrelevant. But, by learning about each other, we may re-discover our culture long forgotten under other influences.
The history of Europe, which brought the Magyar and the Turk against each other should be of no significance if one is after cultural recovery.
Surely, Ottoman expansion in Europe HAD to bring many nations to confront them. Hungary (Magyars) is just one of them. The "Ulah" (Leh?Poles?) were also another such rival.
I forgot: When the modern Turkey was formed by Ataturk, he wanted to resurrect the "Turkish Pride". As such, he mobilized ethnographers about that. At that time, one speculation was that the Magyar and the Oghuz may have some common cultural roots. As part of that, the famous Hungarian composer Bela Bartok was invited to Turkey to investigate if there were any commonality in music of the two countries.
He could not find any. Of course that does not mean much other than that either there was nothing shared or that "time" has erased those.
But, currently Hungary has a massive collection of "sheet music" gathered by Bela Bartok himself of Turkish folk music.
I also have a record about "what was left of the Ottomans in Hungary" record. Of course it has nothing to do with the ancient roots.
If I can copy it into digital format, I will post it at my site,
Látom itt Bartók Béla nevét és Anatoliát. Még az 1960-as években jelent meg néhány cikk az "Élet és Tudomány" című folyóiratban arról, hogy Bartók népzenei kutatásai során Anatoliában ismert magyar népdalokkal szinte tökéletesen egyező népzenét talált. Azután a "magyar" "tudományos" élet igyekezett gyorsan elfelejtkezni róla, mert nem egyezett az ő finn-ugor elméletükkel.
The Ugaritic abjad... a rovás alphabet Az ugariti ábécé ... rovás-ábécé
Mit örököltünk Európa első, bennszülött népeitől? Kik voltak ők? Hogyan éltek? Kihez imádkoztak? Milyen nyelvet beszéltek? Milyen volt társadalmuk, művészetük és kultúrájuk? ... „Az Öreg Európa” már 4000 évvel ezelőtt tudott írni: a finn-ugorok már akkor kitaláltak egy ábécét... Grimm törvényei, az indo-európaiság alapjai tévesek... A magyarok Kr.e. a második évezred végén még Európában voltak és a Honfoglalás tulajdonképpen ősi országuk újbóli birtokbavétele volt... Írásukat a föníciaiak egy olyan néptől másolták, amely megelőzte a görögöket, és amelyről már Herodotosz is elismerte, hogy rendelkezett ábécével... Az etruszk haruspexek, akik kúp alakú süveget viseltek...
A fenti szöveg Michelangelo Naddeo megjelenés előtt álló új könyve hátlapján olvasható szerzői ajánlás fordítása.
What have we inherited from the first, indigenous, populations of Europe? Who were they? How did they live? Whom did they worship? What type of language did they speak? What were their society, art, and culture like?
... „Old Europe” already knew how to write 4000 years ago: the Finno-Ugrians had already invented an alphabet ... Grimm's Laws, the basis of Indo-Europeanism, are not correct ... The Magyars were still in Europe at the end of the 2nd millennium B.C. and the Honfoglalás was the reconquest of their ancestral lands... The Phoenicians copied their alphabet from, the population, who pre-dated the Greeks and who had already been reocgnized by Herodotus as having an alphabet... The Etruscan Haruspices, who wore conical headdresses ...
Michelangelo Naddeo, The Ugaritic abjad... a rovás alphabet
- HERODOTOS: "A szkíták a médek között telepedtek le: ezek a királyi szkíták és a Sarmata-Alföldön laknak. (A Kaukázuson átkelő Subar-Sabir nép ezeknél talál menedéket.) "A szarmaták szkíta nyelvet beszélnek."
PLINIUS: "Ultra Oxum sumt Scytharum populi… multiduo populorum innumera, et quae cum Parthis ex aequo degat, celebberimi eorum Sacae."
"Az Oxuson túl vannak a szkíták népei… a népek számtalan tömege, és akik a partusokkal egyenlőek. Ezek legnevesebbjei a Szakák.
SOLINUS: "Densissima hic (ad iaxartem) Populorum frequentia cum Parthis legem placidi ab exordio moris incorrupta custodit disciplina. Et quibus celeberrimi subt massagaetae. Sacae eiusdem nationis sunt."
"Itt a Jaxartesnél a legnagyobb a népek sűrűsége. A Partusokkal együtt szelíd erkölcsök rendjén sértetlen fegyelem őrzi a törvényt. Ezek között legnevezetesebbek a masszagéták. A szakák ugyanezen nemzethez tartoznak."
PROCOPIUS: (De bello persico…) "Longe etiam diversis moribus vivunt Hunni orientales - non enim vitam ut illi - Hunni ad Caucasum, - ferinam agunt sed regi uni parent, ac sub publicis legibus inter se et cum vicinis ex aequo, et bono contrahunt."
"Régóta eltérő szokás szerint élnek a keleti Hunok- de ugyanannak a királynak engedelmeskednek a közös törvények alatt. Maguk közt, és a szomszédokkal egyenlőségben és jól együttműködnek."
PROCOPIUS: Again parentes habuit massagaetas sive ut iam vocitant Hunnos." "Ugyanaz a szülője a Massagetáknak, vagy ahogy most már neveztetnek: hunoknak."
IUSTINUS: "Parthi… Scytharum exules fuere. Hoc etiam ipsorum vocubalo manifestur. Nam scytice Parthy exules dicuntur."
"A Partusok a szkíták száműzöttjei lehettek. Ezt már nevük is bizonyítja, mert szkíta nyelven a partus - száműzöttet jelent. (Kivándorolt?)("Elpártolt?")
V. Orbán és IX. Gergely pápa, valamint Nicolaus Mysticos bizánci pátriárka a magyarokat nevezi királyi szkítáknak.
Csak azt meg hozza kellett volna fuzni, hogy a "viszaly" a Finn-Ugor es a Torok rokonsag elmeletek kozt igazan egyaltalan nem is letezik ha vki elegge vissza megy a multba, mert a Finn-Ugor nepek es a Torok, sot meg a Mongol-Tatar nepek, es a Keltak is az Ural-Altai nepcsoportbol alakultak ki. Vegeredmenyben ezek a nepek idovel torzsekre szakadtak, de ugyanazon eredeti nagy torzsbol szarmaznak. Innen szarmazhattak a Sumerok is kik vagy oseink is lehettek, akar oseink a megyeri (magari) torzsekben lehettek az ovekek is. Mindenesetre ez a nagy Ural-Altai torzs valoszinuleg a Szkita volt, ahonnan szarmaztattja magat szinte minden Styeppekrol szarmazo mai nep, magunkat is beleertve. Ha be is laktak magari oseink a Bronz korban a Karpat mendencet is, attol meg ez nem jelenti se nem azt hogy nem voltak oseik elotte nomadok Azsiabol eredetileg, se nem azt, hogy nem voltak Szkitak kik oda telepedtek, akar ha onnan is indultak neki Azsianak meg elobb. Az egyik nem szuri ki a masikat mint lehetoseget. Feltehetoen, ha igaz a mostani nagy tudosok theoriaja, valoszinuleg tobbszor is megtettek oseink az utat oda-vissza ingazassal, sot teljes korokkel (a Kozep-Keletre is kiterjedve, koztuk Mezopotamiaba ahol megalapoztak Sumeriat!) a Karpat medencetol Kinaig (Kinatol Karpat medenceig, de kulonbozo iranyokban koztuk is), es persze mindenutt folszedtek befolyasokat es adagoltak is. Ugyhogy, ha van olyan nep aki egyesithetne Eurazsiat, az mi vagyunk. Bar ezt igy szo szerint nem mondhatja ki Alinei, az Olasz tudos (politikai, s karrier biztonsagi okokbol), gondolom ez megfordulhatot a fejebe felfedezesei altal.
Ez igaz, Pókbácsi. Nem is szólva arról, hogy a finn-ugor már eleve fából vaskarika. El kéne dönteniük, hogy finn, vagy ugor. Eszkimo-bantu meghatározásról pl. még sosem hallottam. :-)
KJoszonom szepen, Eszkimo-Banturol (jo viccnek, de ezt nem hangoztatnam, az eszkimok ilyen "lebecsulest talan megbosszulnanak- a Bantuk meg orulnenek talan ilyen felbecsulesen, bar ok meg hamarabb foznek meg az embert), de annal inkabb Hun-Magyarrol. De a Hun rokonsagba most itt nem megyek bele. Keso van, s nincs idom, de annyit gyorsan hozza, az egyik megintcsak nem vagja ki a masikat.
Remélem, idén ugyanilyen remek állapotban pillantom meg Kúnszentmiklóson, augusztus másodi harmadában...
Csite András munkálkodott a tavasszal, bennünket egy barátja esküvöjén a szertertást celebráló Tiszti - Gergely Atyának bemutatni. Nem az esküvö maradt el, akadályoztatva voltunk.
köszi
VálaszTörlésSzívesen. Hozok még szubjektív válogatást más albumokból is. :-)
VálaszTörléskurultaj...
VálaszTörlésIs it pronounced as "kurultai"?
If so, it may have its origin from the original language of tribes from Asia...!
Would that be the Magyars?
The one in blue looks like a "tartar" warrior.
VálaszTörlésMagyar-Madjar meeting
VálaszTörlésOld August 19, 2008, 01:10 AM
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3530079#post3530079
YouTube - On the Stellar Path - Schythians or Huns?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAo38hnqvkQ
http://www.kurultaj.hu/
THX!
VálaszTörlésKurultay 2008 - The Table of the Hungarians, where the Hungarians give the Madjars a super dinner
VálaszTörlésThe long table table with full of food
VálaszTörlésIstván Gergely spoke the table blessing.
VálaszTörlés(Tiszti)
Péter Rózsa and the leader of the baranta group, Ferenc Vukics.
VálaszTörlésAndrás Zsolt Bíró anthropologist, who leaded the expedition to the Madjars of Torgaj.
VálaszTörlésKurmangazi Sokpituli, one of the leaders of the Madjars.
VálaszTörlésWOW...
VálaszTörlésTHX a lot. How amazing.
There is also the "mysterious" runes (runic writings) in Hungary, which seems to be a different alphabet originating from East of the Urals or perhaps east of the Kaspian Sea.
The Hungarian Runes seems to be different than those found in Norway and Sweden. Surprisingly, very similar writings were also found in deep Central Asia on a monument erected by a Turkic tribe...
I guess, the steppes of Eurasia has made it "easy" to move for nomadic people who had mastered horse-back riding...
But, it is also a "mystery" to me, why the movements have been mostly East to West...
here is something along those lines...
VálaszTörléshttp://www.hunmagyar.org/turan/tatar/tatar-origin.html
and...
VálaszTörlésKurultai
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Kurultai (Kazakh: Құрылтай, Qurıltay; Tatar: Qorıltay; Azerbaijani: Qurultay; Turkish: Kurultay) is a political and military council of ancient Mongol and Turkic chiefs and khans. The root of the word "Kural," or "Khural" means "meeting" in the Mongolian language as in State Great Khural. Kurultai is a little older variation of the word compared to the Mongolian language as of today.
Thx...
VálaszTörlésHUNS - MAGYARS
www.magtudin.org/Karpati Gabor.htm
A NEW VIEW OF THE ARTHURIAN LEGE
www.magtudin.org/Arthur part 6.htm
scythia : Message: Schytian linquistic materials
connecting Hunnish word Ver to Phri (Va:ri) in the first sllyable of a Schytian ... of Turkic dialects.Schytian sword Akinak is nothing ...
groups.yahoo.com/group/scythia/message/502?l=1
Outside of the Schytian writing found in the vicinity of Alma-atý .The most ... information concerning Schytian linquistic materials If ...
groups.yahoo.com/group/scythia/messages/488?xm=1&m=e&l=1
Aki nem töri úgy kerékbe az angol nyelvet, mint én, annak megköszönném, ha segítene. :-)
VálaszTörlésMore WOW...
VálaszTörlés==>Turghai the husband of the daughter of Hulagu Khan. [18] [19]
==>[[Torgai]] in the [[Altay Mountains|Altai]] mountains of [[Siberia]].
==>...southeast suburb of the West-Siberian lowland, to the south from it is situated Torgai plateau;
==>Majar or Macar [mʌˈʤar] was a medieval city of Golden Horde in 13th-14th centuries. Once it played a major role in the trade between Idel-Ural, Caucasus and the Black Sea region. In 1310-1311 the city coined own money. In 1395 it was ruined by troops of Timur.
==>In Old slavic texts Hungarians were referred to as Ugors or Ogurs (Ugri), in Byzantine and early Latin texts uniguri, Ungri words were used, presumably from the Turkic word On ogur, meaning ten arrows, i.e. ten tribes (the traditional Hungarian tribes (Megyer, Jenő, Keszi, Nyék, Kér, Tarján, while Kürt and Gyarmat merged into one tribe making it seven total) joined by three Kabar tribes whose names are not known for sure (with the usual suspects being Ság, Ladány, Berény, Tárkány). Later, from the Unugor form evolved the words Ungarus, Ungar, Venger. In the middle ages the Latin Ungarus, Ungaria words changed to Hungarus, Hungaria
==>c.830 to c.895
Around 830, a civil war broke out in the Khazar khaganate. As a result, three Kabar tribes out of the Khazars joined the Magyars and they moved to what the Magyars call the Etelköz, i.e. the territory between the Carpathians and the Dnieper River (today's Ukraine)[citation needed]. Around 854, the Magyars had to face a first attack by the Pechenegs[citation needed]. (According to other sources, the reason for the departure of the Magyars to Etelköz was the attack of the Pechenegs[citation needed].) Both the Kabars and earlier the Bulgars may have taught the Magyars their Turkic languages; according to the Finno-Ugric theory[citation needed], this is used to account for at least three hundred Turkic words and names still in modern Hungarian. The new neighbours of the Magyars were the Vikings and the eastern Slavs. Archaeological findings suggest that the Magyars entered into intense interaction with both groups[citation needed]. From 862 onwards, the Magyars (already referred to as the Ungri) along with their allies, the Kabars, started a series of looting raids from the Etelköz to the Carpathian Basin–mostly against the Eastern Frankish Empire (Germany) and Great Moravia, but also against the Balaton principality and Bulgaria.[25]
Thank you...
VálaszTörlésMore:
INSTITUTE OF HUNGARIAN STUDIES
http://www.magtudin.org
Klára Friedrich
THE MYSTERY OF TATÁRLAKA
http://www.magtudin.org/Mystery%20of%20Tatarlaka%20%20Part.%201.htm
Susan Tomory
THE SCYTHIAN - SCOTTISH – HUNGARIAN
RELATIONSHIP
http://www.magtudin.org/Scythian-Scottish-Hungarian.htm
**************************************
"Dear President, dear friends and
colleagues of the Organizing Committee, Ladies and Gentlemen.
To my deepest regret I cannot attend this important World Congress, the
organizers of which have been so kind as to nominate me Honorary President.
Though I feel I do not deserve this honour, I am deeply touched by your
conviction that I do.
I have learned to know Hungarian people through my studies, and I have
been struck by their creativity, their intelligence and their special qualities,
which are also reflected in the complexities of their language and
culture.
My discovery that modern Hungarians are the heirs of the Kurgan
invaders of Hungary in the Copper Age, and of the ancient founders of the
Etruscan civilization, has not yet been accepted by official academies. But I
have no doubt that eventually it will, and Hungarians will be recognized as the
founders of one of the most original and important Bronze and Iron-Age
civilizations of Europe.
I wish a great success to your Congress, and express the conviction
that Hungary will occupy an increasingly important place in Europe"
Mario Alinei
A barátaim ottlehettek, sajnos a körülményeim úgy hozták,hogy nem lehettem veletek!.
VálaszTörlésSzebb jövőt!
Misi
Gyönyörű képek!Köszönöm!
VálaszTörlésMeglesz, Misi! :-)
VálaszTörlésActually those Hungarian runes are still in use today in Transsylvania by the Székelys.
VálaszTörlésAlthough not on a regular daily basis, but it is alive and well and making a comeback.
Its origins can be traced back through the Central Asian steppes directly to the Sumerians.
Actually the Madjar people were decimated and relocated to their present quarters first by Imperial Russia, then the Soviets finished the job.
VálaszTörlésTheir original location was around Alma Ata.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be extremely cautious when consulting European historical writing, it is rife with outright blatant falsehoods and extremely unreliable, especially for the period of the IVth through the Xth Centuries.
One such example the Slavic name itself, which never existed, it is an artificial creation of XIXth Century European history "creation".
Another extremely relevant example is the so called "Finno-Ugric theory" which is completely discredited by now.
Another great example is this so called Greater Moravia, which is not supported by any historical record, quite on the contrary it is pure fiction,
Often, "language" is used to trace the descendancy of people. Obviously, Hungarian is not related to the "Indo-Germanic" languages.
VálaszTörlésNever mind the "words", but by "grammar", too.
When I had visited Budapest (long time ago), it was the first European country where I was "lost", in the sense that no sign was decipherable by my knowledge of German and English.
No resemblance to anything I was familiar with.
There are such other enclaves: For instance, the Etruscans...but their language seems not to be Indo-European, nor directly related to any other, and it remains largely undeciphered, although the phonetics and morphology are understood.
I believe the "Basque" are another such "mystery" people.
However, that the Magyars are from the steppes of today's Russia and beyond seems to be beyond doubt.
I hardly know about the Finno-Ugric theory. Is that because Finnish is also hard to classify?
Perhaps, Magyar was thrown in with Finno-Ugric simply because it just was NOT Indo-European?
What references can you point me to regarding "Alma Ata" being the origin of the Magyars?
Here is a "Runic Inscription" from Central Asia, in a Turkic language.These are the so called "Orkhon Stelae". They were discovered by a Swedish officer who was a prisoner-of-war to the Russian Czar's army. He thought he had found writings from ancient Swedes, since "runes" were well known in Scandinavia by then. They turned out to be an old Turkic language, which is by now well read.
VálaszTörlésHowever, this shows how widespread the use of the runes then were! All the way from Inner Asia, to Scandinavia, to Hungary...
Perhaps of interest:
VálaszTörlésThe Onogurs were a horde of equestrian nomads that wandered the Eurasian plains in the 5th–8th centuries. They lived in North Caucasian steppe east of Don River (Russia).
The 7th century tribal alliance of Old Great Bulgaria was also known as Onogundur-Bulgar Empire (or in its western version Onoguria). Some scholars identify the Onogundurs with the Onogurs, considering them as one of the leading tribe of the confederation. Others reject the identification of the two names.[1]
It is presently believed that the origin of the name "Hungarian" and "Hungary" does not come from the Central Asian nomadic invaders called the Huns, but rather originated either from the name of the Onogurs or from that of the seventh century tribal alliance.
Etymology
The word On means Ten, and Ok means Arrow in modern Turkish. On Ok (Ten Arrows) is the modern Turkish plural form. Similarly, On-Ogur in Old Turkic could mean "Ten Arrows" or "Ten Tribes".[2][3]
VálaszTörlésHere is a "map" of 600 AD. Note the "magyars" (click on it to get to the BIG original)
You are quite right, Hungarian or Magyar is definitely not Indo-European.
VálaszTörlésI am not an authority on the subject however my cousin's mother is a linguist and language historian and she taught me a lot of things.First and foremost what she taught me was, there is no such thing as Indo-European.
It can be quite conclusively proven that no Indo migration occured into Europe at any time during human history(with the exception of the Gypsies), frankly it is but a figment of the imagination of European scientists working for monarchs and the Catholic Church, looking to establish a link between the rich culture and heritage of the East and the freshly forming European Monarchies, in other words they were looking for illustrious ancestors.
Creation of the Indo-European term itself dates back to the late XVIIIth to early XIXth Centuries.
As for the Etruscans, I have seen Prof. Mario Alinei's name mentioned in this thread somewhere, he just published a book last year in which he demonstrates not only the similarity but the very close relation between Etruscan and Ancient Hungarian languages.
Actually this has been demonstraded about 60 years ago, because the Etruscan writing has been deciphered with the use of the above already mentioned Hungarian Runes which we call "rovás" writing (rovaash).
http://michelangelo.cn/index.php?arguments=dynamic&idPagina=dec2e2952&preferredLang=uk
This is an interesting link you might want to consult, it is exceedingly hard to come up with other then Hungarian language sites on this theme.
As to two of your questions, Alma Ata was the center of the people we are refferring to as Madjars in this thread, who were forcibly relocated to their present quarters.
Funny thing, there is a people in Nepal called Magar, fiercely independent they have been in a state of war with the Monarchy for at least 150 years.
Regarding the Finno-Ugric theory, it is based on the mixing up of the term Ugor with the term Ogur...:)))
By renowned scientists, no less...., other than this it has no foundation and by now it has been conclusively defeated by DNA research.
There is one thing we know, Hungarian is an ancient language, quite possibly one of the oldest on Earth, but there is a great reluctance to accept it because a large part of history will have to be rewritten.
Especially European history.
In the annals of the Byzantin Emperor Constantinos Porphyrogenetos, De Administrando Imperio one can find excellent revelations.
VálaszTörlésOne of them is about the people we refer to as Bulgarians today.
In the annals they are referred to as Hunni Bolgares, the Huns by the river Volga. Hence their name...
Another interesting fact is about the death of Attila, Ruler of the Huns.
Quite surprised he writes, that after his death a delegation of Avar noblemen arrived to Constantinople to notify them about the fact that they are the new rulers of the Hun Empire.
For a week they turned every nook and cranny over in Byzantium to find a translator who speaks Avar, but to no avail.
Huge was their amazement and a big load off their shoulders when the Avar noblemen arrived and their language turned out to be....Hun...:))))
It seems that those steppes and everything between them and Central Europe have been a lot more populated then anybody in the XIXth Century would have thought, they went by different names but they were part of the same people.
:))))))))))))))))))
VálaszTörlésThank you for this. Sad, but so common in some fields of scholarly work where the interest of the rulers (who provide the funds) is not the facts, necessarily...
Also THX for the link.
However, let us not presume that being the same peoples makes them "less" hostile to each other!
VálaszTörlésRegardless, people of the "same" background have been also their fiercest enemies. For instance, Scandinavian countries have been slaughtering each other for centuries. Denmark, Sweden and Norway!
What is of interest is the "movement" of people, its motivations of "why", and the survival of some of customs different from the "usual".
Nagyon örülök gurcanaral érdeklődésének, külön köszönettel tartozom kedves Kanbagolynak, amiért felvállalta a "rávarródott" tisztséget, és szabatosan bőségesen megválaszolt a felmerült kérdésekre. :-)
VálaszTörlésEzzel egy kicsit sikerült hozzájárulni Wass Albert akaratához, akinek célja volt megismertetni a világgal a magyarok igaz történelmét.
Ha nem ismerem meg Wass Albert műveit, szellemiségét, nem lépek be a wassakarat.multiplay-be, és így egy "kanbagollyal is szegényebbek volnánk." ;-)
Ezúttal kedvezett nekünk a szerencse.
Köszönet érte. :-)
I wish I could understand that...
VálaszTörlés:)
What is really scary, the whole history of the Middle Ages as written from the "civilized European" view is complete and utter falsification.
VálaszTörlésIt only serves to reinforce the "rights" of certain Monarchies...
For example, the story of Greater Moravia and the Slavs.
By now we know very well that the settlement of the Carpathian Basin did not happen in one move.
It happened along the course of several centuries.
This did not fit the political aims of German rulers and Russian rulers, since neither wanted to allow for the existence and the continuity of a large people with strong military might existing there.
We know it did exist, the facts support it, Attila was the last great Hun king and he ruled almost everything from Central Europe to the Caucasus.
We know the Avars took over after an intense period of infighting and consolidated their power.
Yet for some unfathomable reason "civilized" historians just declare them extinct...:)))
Instead of them they come up with a term, never heard before, with no basis in ethnography, geography, history and in general any known or dead discipline on the face of this Earth and this is the term SLAV!
It was fabricated from the Latin term SCLAVUS, which means serf, indentured servant and SLAVE...
Obviously, IF these people existed, they occupied a space in the continuum so it should have a name also..., and this became Greater Moravia..:))))
Obviously there is NO RECORD of any such thing in the annals of History but it does not seem to bother anybody from the scientific community.
What is also good for a chuckle, this supposed Greater Moravia exists in a time period WHICH ALSO NEVER EXISTED, between the VIth and Xth Centuries, which low and behold is the timeframe when the Carpathian Basin is being populated....:))))
A German Statitician and Researcher, by name Herbert Illig has a couple of books on almost the same theme, only he looks at all of Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heribert_Illig
His contention is that the early Middle Ages of Europe are a complete fraud and falsification and anything between 614 to 911 A.D. has to be
thrown out because it is pure fiction.
One of his very interesting books is The Imagined Middle Ages, The Biggest Fraud In History.
Lots of people do not like him, but to this day, since 1991, NOBODY could prove him wrong!
She said she is extremely happy because you show interest in this theme, since very few Turkish people do, in spite of the fact that there is some degree of interrelatedness between our peoples, and she thanked me for being a nice guy translating and condensing a bunch of stuff for you....:))))
VálaszTörlésBTW, what is the Turkish word for beans and peppers?
I am in complete agreement about your point!
VálaszTörlésHowever, several reliable historical records also mention that the Bulgarians moved into their present quarters at the same time and in a coordinated fashion with the Hungarians in a so called scissor move which encircled the whole Carpathian basin and surrounded it with related peoples.
I would say it was quite a diplomatic, military and logistical feat.
Wow!
VálaszTörlésAfter the emergence of modern Turkey, there HAS been sort of a "nationalism" (which I approach with caution!). At that time, there had been a lot of claims about the possible common origin of the Turkic tribes and Hungarians ('Majar" in Turkish). The Anatolian kingdom of the Ottomans (which had a lot of warfare with their contemporary Magyars!) is claimed to be from the "Oguz" or "Ogur" as well.
It is obvious that both the Ottomans AND the Magyars and the Huns came from the steppes of Inner Asia.
This does not necessarily make them "friends", as we know from the history. After all, "nation" is an artifact of the French Revolution. Prior to that, people simply had allegiance to a ruler. That was it!
The means to understand the movement of people has very limited means. One is the "language". The other one is "ancient cultural traditions". Both of those are subject to corruption over time.
The Oghuz of Anatolia where influenced by the Arabic and Persian cultures and Islam so much, it is a miracle that the basic language has survived.
Similarily, the effect of Christianity has had tremendous influence upon the Magyar culture.
When I was visiting Budapest (decades ago!), the tour guide was very proud of the memorial for Arpad(?), but, at the same time, very critical of the "Turks" having caused so much devastation to Hungary.
Of course these are NOT contradictory at all!. Who cared what your origin was from?
It is well documented that Byzantine Empire had "Turkic" or "Scythian" worriers in their army fighting against the Oghuz Turks of Anatolia...
But, then, what is new???
When Tamerlane sent his ultimatum to the then Ottoman Sultan (Bayezit I) he wrote in "Turkish", but the Sultan replied in "Persian", because at that time Persian was the "Lingua Franca".
Eventually, Tamerlane (Timur) prevailed and the first Ottoman kingdom was razed to ground.
But, these events have nothing to do with "cultural affiliation". That is "without borders".
Surely, Turks have had tremendous influence of the Islamic, Arabic and Persian culture. But, despite of those, the language and certain customs have prevailed.
Magyars also hold on to their language substantially, I see. Along that, I would be interested about ancient customs, unusual for Europeans, but overlapping with others, perhaps Turkomans, Alans, Kyrghiz and other "Central Asiatic" tribes.
We may or may not have descendants of the same "tribe". That is quite irrelevant. But, by learning about each other, we may re-discover our culture long forgotten under other influences.
The history of Europe, which brought the Magyar and the Turk against each other should be of no significance if one is after cultural recovery.
Surely, Ottoman expansion in Europe HAD to bring many nations to confront them. Hungary (Magyars) is just one of them. The "Ulah" (Leh?Poles?) were also another such rival.
I forgot:
VálaszTörlésWhen the modern Turkey was formed by Ataturk, he wanted to resurrect the "Turkish Pride". As such, he mobilized ethnographers about that. At that time, one speculation was that the Magyar and the Oghuz may have some common cultural roots.
As part of that, the famous Hungarian composer Bela Bartok was invited to Turkey to investigate if there were any commonality in music of the two countries.
He could not find any. Of course that does not mean much other than that either there was nothing shared or that "time" has erased those.
But, currently Hungary has a massive collection of "sheet music" gathered by Bela Bartok himself of Turkish folk music.
I also have a record about "what was left of the Ottomans in Hungary" record. Of course it has nothing to do with the ancient roots.
If I can copy it into digital format, I will post it at my site,
Látom itt Bartók Béla nevét és Anatoliát.
VálaszTörlésMég az 1960-as években jelent meg néhány cikk az "Élet és Tudomány" című folyóiratban arról, hogy Bartók népzenei kutatásai során Anatoliában ismert magyar népdalokkal szinte tökéletesen egyező népzenét talált.
Azután a "magyar" "tudományos" élet igyekezett gyorsan elfelejtkezni róla, mert nem egyezett az ő finn-ugor elméletükkel.
http://www.turania.com/
VálaszTörlésThe
VálaszTörlésUgaritic abjad... a rovás alphabet
Az ugariti ábécé ...
rovás-ábécé
Mit örököltünk
Európa első, bennszülött népeitől? Kik voltak ők? Hogyan éltek? Kihez
imádkoztak? Milyen nyelvet beszéltek? Milyen volt társadalmuk, művészetük és
kultúrájuk?
... „Az Öreg Európa” már 4000 évvel ezelőtt tudott írni: a
finn-ugorok már akkor kitaláltak egy ábécét...
Grimm törvényei, az
indo-európaiság alapjai tévesek...
A magyarok Kr.e. a második évezred
végén még Európában voltak és a Honfoglalás tulajdonképpen ősi országuk újbóli birtokbavétele
volt... Írásukat a föníciaiak egy olyan néptől másolták, amely megelőzte a
görögöket, és amelyről már Herodotosz is elismerte, hogy rendelkezett
ábécével... Az etruszk haruspexek, akik kúp alakú süveget
viseltek...
A fenti szöveg Michelangelo Naddeo
megjelenés előtt álló új könyve hátlapján olvasható szerzői ajánlás fordítása.
What have we inherited from the
first, indigenous, populations of Europe? Who were they? How did they live?
Whom did they worship? What type of language did they speak? What were their
society, art, and culture like?
... „Old Europe” already knew how to
write 4000 years ago: the Finno-Ugrians had already invented an alphabet ...
Grimm's Laws, the basis of Indo-Europeanism, are not correct ... The Magyars
were still in Europe at the end of the 2nd millennium B.C. and the Honfoglalás
was the reconquest of their ancestral lands... The Phoenicians copied their
alphabet from, the population, who pre-dated the Greeks and who had already
been reocgnized by Herodotus as having an alphabet... The Etruscan Haruspices,
who wore conical headdresses ...
Michelangelo Naddeo, The
Ugaritic abjad... a rovás alphabet
- HERODOTOS: "A szkíták a
VálaszTörlésmédek között telepedtek le: ezek a királyi szkíták és a Sarmata-Alföldön
laknak. (A Kaukázuson átkelő Subar-Sabir nép ezeknél talál menedéket.) "A
szarmaták szkíta nyelvet beszélnek."
PLINIUS: "Ultra Oxum
sumt Scytharum populi… multiduo populorum innumera, et quae cum Parthis ex
aequo degat, celebberimi eorum Sacae."
"Az Oxuson túl vannak a szkíták népei…
a népek számtalan tömege, és akik a partusokkal egyenlőek. Ezek
legnevesebbjei a Szakák.
SOLINUS: "Densissima hic (ad
iaxartem) Populorum frequentia cum Parthis legem placidi ab exordio moris
incorrupta custodit disciplina. Et quibus celeberrimi subt massagaetae.
Sacae eiusdem nationis sunt."
"Itt a Jaxartesnél a legnagyobb a népek sűrűsége. A
Partusokkal együtt szelíd erkölcsök rendjén sértetlen fegyelem őrzi a
törvényt. Ezek között legnevezetesebbek a masszagéták. A szakák ugyanezen
nemzethez tartoznak."
PROCOPIUS: (De bello persico…)
"Longe etiam diversis moribus vivunt Hunni orientales - non enim vitam ut
illi - Hunni ad Caucasum, - ferinam agunt sed regi uni parent, ac sub
publicis legibus inter se et cum vicinis ex aequo, et bono
contrahunt."
"Régóta eltérő szokás szerint élnek a keleti Hunok- de ugyanannak
a királynak engedelmeskednek a közös törvények alatt. Maguk közt, és a
szomszédokkal egyenlőségben és jól együttműködnek."
PROCOPIUS: Again parentes habuit massagaetas sive ut iam
vocitant Hunnos."
"Ugyanaz a szülője a Massagetáknak, vagy
ahogy most már neveztetnek: hunoknak."
IUSTINUS: "Parthi…
Scytharum exules fuere. Hoc etiam ipsorum vocubalo manifestur. Nam scytice
Parthy exules dicuntur."
"A Partusok a szkíták száműzöttjei lehettek. Ezt
már nevük is bizonyítja, mert szkíta nyelven a partus - száműzöttet
jelent. (Kivándorolt?)("Elpártolt?")
V. Orbán és IX. Gergely pápa, valamint Nicolaus
Mysticos bizánci pátriárka a magyarokat nevezi királyi
szkítáknak.
Nagyon szép jelenetek a Magyarságról. Örültem Neked.
VálaszTörlésGyere máskor is. :-)
VálaszTörlésCsak azt meg hozza kellett volna fuzni, hogy a "viszaly" a Finn-Ugor es a Torok rokonsag elmeletek kozt igazan egyaltalan nem is letezik ha vki elegge vissza megy a multba, mert a Finn-Ugor nepek es a Torok, sot meg a Mongol-Tatar nepek, es a Keltak is az Ural-Altai nepcsoportbol alakultak ki. Vegeredmenyben ezek a nepek idovel torzsekre szakadtak, de ugyanazon eredeti nagy torzsbol szarmaznak. Innen szarmazhattak a Sumerok is kik vagy oseink is lehettek, akar oseink a megyeri (magari) torzsekben lehettek az ovekek is. Mindenesetre ez a nagy Ural-Altai torzs valoszinuleg a Szkita volt, ahonnan szarmaztattja magat szinte minden Styeppekrol szarmazo mai nep, magunkat is beleertve. Ha be is laktak magari oseink a Bronz korban a Karpat mendencet is, attol meg ez nem jelenti se nem azt hogy nem voltak oseik elotte nomadok Azsiabol eredetileg, se nem azt, hogy nem voltak Szkitak kik oda telepedtek, akar ha onnan is indultak neki Azsianak meg elobb. Az egyik nem szuri ki a masikat mint lehetoseget. Feltehetoen, ha igaz a mostani nagy tudosok theoriaja, valoszinuleg tobbszor is megtettek oseink az utat
VálaszTörlésoda-vissza ingazassal, sot teljes korokkel (a Kozep-Keletre is kiterjedve, koztuk Mezopotamiaba ahol megalapoztak Sumeriat!) a Karpat medencetol Kinaig (Kinatol Karpat medenceig, de kulonbozo iranyokban koztuk is), es persze mindenutt folszedtek befolyasokat es adagoltak is. Ugyhogy, ha van olyan nep aki egyesithetne Eurazsiat, az mi vagyunk. Bar ezt igy szo szerint nem mondhatja ki Alinei, az Olasz tudos (politikai, s karrier biztonsagi okokbol), gondolom ez megfordulhatot a fejebe felfedezesei altal.
Ez igaz, Pókbácsi. Nem is szólva arról, hogy a finn-ugor már eleve fából vaskarika.
VálaszTörlésEl kéne dönteniük, hogy finn, vagy ugor. Eszkimo-bantu meghatározásról pl. még sosem hallottam. :-)
KJoszonom szepen, Eszkimo-Banturol (jo viccnek, de ezt nem hangoztatnam, az eszkimok ilyen "lebecsulest talan megbosszulnanak- a Bantuk meg orulnenek talan ilyen felbecsulesen, bar ok meg hamarabb foznek meg az embert), de annal inkabb Hun-Magyarrol. De a Hun rokonsagba most itt nem megyek bele. Keso van, s nincs idom, de annyit gyorsan hozza, az egyik megintcsak nem vagja ki a masikat.
VálaszTörlés:-)
VálaszTörlésRemélem, idén ugyanilyen remek állapotban pillantom meg Kúnszentmiklóson, augusztus másodi harmadában...
VálaszTörlésCsite András munkálkodott a tavasszal, bennünket egy barátja esküvöjén a szertertást celebráló Tiszti - Gergely Atyának bemutatni.
Nem az esküvö maradt el, akadályoztatva voltunk.
De levelet, azt váltottunk, Kamilla ügyében - is.